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So, if you want to have the authority of the king, you must be consciousness itself. Then the senses will obey you. Everything will be beautiful because all commands will come from consciousness. Kings can make mistakes, but consciousness always makes the right decision at the right time. When you have no-mind, you cannot do any work of your own accord. You are simply being graced. And you are obeying. You yourself are not doing anything because doership has gone. Mind is no more there. All the various functions of the mind are no longer there. You will stay with the body for a stipulated period that has already been decided, and during that time you will be an instrument of consciousness.

 

Some people cannot stand the shock of freedom for more than twenty-one days. That has been stated in the books. Imagine a man who unexpectedly wins a billion dollars in a lottery. The shock of so much wealth suddenly coming might kill him. He could get a heart attack and die.

 

It is sometimes the same with enlightenment. So much happiness coming suddenly and unexpectedly can take away the body. But the enlightenment will not be affected.

 

Some people live on after enlightenment only to benefit other people. This benefit is not coming from some ‘person’, it is coming directly from consciousness. The teacher, who is consciousness, knows that it is not ‘I’ who is working. His attitude is: ‘I have been picked out to speak, but it is not “I” who speak.’ If the teacher thinks that ‘he’ is speaking, this is only arrogance. His words will not work.

 

When you have that direct experience, it’s of no concern to you what you say. It’s not your problem if someone is benefited or not benefited, nor if people come or don’t come. It’s all the same to you.

 

David: So consciousness has ordered you to teach. Is that what you are saying?

 

Papaji: Consciousness ... ?

 

David: Has ordered you to teach. Is that what you are saying? You are just carrying out the order.

 

Papaji: [Long pause] Consciousness and me – we have become so much one, I cannot say if ‘it’ can order ‘me’.

 

 

David: But some power is compelling you to give satsang, yes?

 

Papaji: Yes, ‘some power’ is like this: [stretches out his hand in front of him] if I want to drink water do I say, ‘Poonjaji, pick up the glass’? Before I put it in the mouth, do I say to my hand, ‘Put it in the mouth’? And before I drink, do I give the order, ‘Drink’? [Papaji laughs, picks up the tumbler and drinks.] Now, I have not commanded the hand. It’s all me, you see. People who are benefited are not ‘others’. The hand is my own, the stomach is my own and the requirement for water is my own. Who are the others? Who is other than me?

 

Who, first of all, is ignorant? If people say so, I don’t believe them. Who wants to be free? If someone tells me this, I don’t believe him. Who is not already free?

 

So, when people come to me and say, ‘I am in trouble, I am bound,’ I think they are joking, so I joke back, ‘You are not bound, you are free’.

 

‘Does it take a long time?’ they ask.

 

‘No, no,’ I say. ‘You can get it now itself.’

 

All this is a joke, so I take it as a joke. The statement, ‘I am a bound,’ is it not a joke? The people who speak like this don’t show me the chains, nor the fetters, nor the prison. What kind of jail is this? So it’s all a big joke to me, and I enjoy the joke.

 

David: So when you look at people in satsang, Papaji, you only see enlightened people who are pretending not to be enlightened?

 

Papaji: [Long pause] Oh, it’s a difficult question, but I have to answer it because I answer all questions. First of all, I absorb them all and give them a seat in my Heart, in my Heart. As the lover gives a seat to the beloved in his Heart, you are always seated in my Heart. So I open here and say, ‘You and I, we will speak together. Yes. You are not apart from me, you are within the Heart. You are in my Heart. Let us speak.’

 

David: Grace is working in satsang, Papaji. Does it come from you, through you, or is it simply just there?

 

Papaji: From grace only. Grace has to come from grace, no? A wave has to come from the ocean. Grace has to come from grace, the ocean of grace.

 

David: It seems to flow very strongly in your proximity, though.

 

Papaji: I don’t know.

 

David: Papaji, I’ve heard you say several times, ‘I know many tricks to wake people up. If one doesn’t work, I use another.’ What are these tricks, and how do you use them?

 

Papaji: One trick is, ‘Keep quiet! Keep quiet!’ The second trick is ‘Don’t think at all’. The third trick is, ‘Don’t activate your mind’. If these don’t work I have a fourth trick. I say, ‘Come to me and I will teach you yoga. I will teach you how to do shirshasana [a yogic position with the head on the floor and the feet in the air]’.

 

I make them stand in front of me and then I say, ‘Now, head down, feet up in the air, this is shirshasana’. I know how to do it myself, so I can easily show them. Then, while they are standing on their heads, they will say, ‘But I want freedom’.

 

While they are still in that posture I will tell them how to gain freedom. I will say, ‘Keep quiet, keep quiet’.

 

 

Papaji
Papaji

Papaji, taken on the day of the interview in the Botanic Garden, Lucknow

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Papaj
Papaj

Papaji, taken on the day of the interview in the Botanic Garden, Lucknow

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Papaji Interview 5.jpg
Papaji Interview 5.jpg

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Papaji
Papaji

Papaji, taken on the day of the interview in the Botanic Garden, Lucknow

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The photos in the slide show were all taken during this interview in the Botanic Garden, Lucknow. The cover photo of the book was also taken that day.

David Godman Books

 

Books by David Godman on Ramana Maharshi, his devotees and his teachings

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